Meet the real captive-br
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Former Member , 2 years ago | FlagWhat are snow tigers? There is no answer to that question, because there is no cat species known as a "snow tiger". It could be that people are referring to Snow Leopards, a gray cat with charcoal spots that lives above the permafrost line in mountain tops at the top of the world. Some people refer to tigers that live where it snows, as Snow Tigers, but that would be Siberian Tigers which are also known at Amur Tigers.
There has been a huge deception played out by the entertainment industry that there is such a thing as a Royal White Bengal Tiger and these are sometimes referred to as Snow Tigers, but they are not a species of tiger, but rather an inbred and cross bred version of tiger that was created only because people will pay to see a white tiger. They cannot be used for conservation breeding and suffer all of the problems associated with inbreeding.
The White Lion and White Liger also come from severe inbreeding, just to get the white coat, causing serious birth defects.
White Servals are the product of indiscriminate breeding as well just to fill an ignorant market caused by people who don't know where that white coat really comes from. There is no justification for inbreeding tigers to create the white coats and no excuse for cross breeding lions and tigers just because ignorant people will be to see a freak. Ligers and white tigers suffer painful birth defects that often kill them as youngsters, but for those in the business of having plenty of babies on hand, that is better for the exploiters.
So often lame and cross eyed from the inbreeding that goes into producing the white tigers that will fetch a big price.
Category: exotic cats
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Caitlin,
If you read his story, you’ll see that Kenny’s got a great personality. I’ve nothing against Kenny or Willie. But look also at what Kenny has to live with. Can you imagine living your life like that? But then, at least he gets a life of care and love, something that most other Kennys don’t get.
I’m angry and disgusted at the people who perpetuate the white tiger fraud and cause tigers to be born with defects like Kenny’s, and for using conservation as a cover for their shameless greed and egotism. I’m also disgusted at the general public for being so accepting of these people’s deception and for not thinking about the truth behind the beauty they see.
Please tell your friends and family about the fraud, but do let them know, it’s not the tigers’ fault at all, they are themselves victims of human greed and exploitation.
….couldnt have put it better myself, Calsifer.
This is not about Siegfried and Roy
It’s about the hundreds of circuses, zoos, wild pet owners that inbreed these tigers and misuse them.
I believe that Siegfried and Roy are helping the tigers but I can’t say that they haven’t inbreed their own tigers..I prefer to think not because they are professionals. I do believe that they are doing more good then bad. However because of their popular show other entertainers are practicing their own horrible inbreeding method in attempt to copy the famous show.
I appreciate this website and it’s creater who is only trying to open our minds and eyes
Jackie,
You’re right, this isn’t about Siegfried and Roy - they’re not worth the focus. That’s why I did not mention them specifically. However they were brought in and made the centre of the universe by their supporters. The carnival continues as long as people refuse to take off their personal blinkers and LOOK.
Indeed, “hundreds of circuses, zoos, wild pet owners” inbreed, exploit and abuse white tigers. And other big cats. Even elephants, dolphins, bears… the list is endless.
Please read again the comments before yours that’s been posted about Siegfried and Roy”so-called” conservation efforts. It is a fact that the Siegfried and Roy website states that they are doing white tiger conservation, to save the endangered WHITE tiger :
Any genuine help for TIGERS must preclude this obsession with white tigers. and knowing the truth about white tigers in captivity means this is a misleading statement, to put it mildly.
Using white tigers in their show degrades, misinforms and confuse the issues of TIGER conservation and the White Tiger Fraud.
Using white tigers and promoting their allure as an “endangered species” sure adds glamour and allure to their show, but Siegfried and Roy are bilking the romanticism of the wild beast on a stage, the myticism of control over wild animals, and the audience’s feel-good factor of seeing a member of an “endangered species” up close and earning his keep.
The fact that these two claim to be doing onservation of an endangered species just becomes so much bullocks, used to cement the flaky foundation of their justifications for exploiting white tigers and exploiting the public’s naivete. So I cannot agree with your view/belief that they are “helping the tigers” nor that “they are doing more good then bad”. This is especially when as you observe:
Siegfried and Roy are not guiltless in inspiring this phenomenon. In fact, I am disgusted at their roles in it.
Well, it looks like Siegfried and Roy are getting time on this blog entry again after all.
But thank you for being civil, polite and applying some thought to your comment, and for being clear that you “can’t say that they haven’t inbreed their own tigers”. Really, unless Siegfried and Roy themselves prove it, which would be a major miracle, any grand statements that captive-bred white tigers have no inbreeding in their lineage can’t hold tiger urine, white or otherwise.
thank you
white tigers are beatiful but they need to be helped
ALL tigers need help, and they need LESS meddling from humans who just want to artifiicially make more white tigers.
All Tigers are gorgeous animals, no matter what ‘genetic faults’ they have!
Just thought I’d voice this oppinion.
Caz,
Right you are. In fact, ALL living things are gorgeous. The really hideous thing is what we humans, Homo Sapiens, do to them for whatever reason or excuse we dream up.
Everyone,
I have only been able to read about the first 10-15 posts, and I am completely disgusted. You all have intelligent, rational and valid points, but please, children, can’t you all grow up. You have made this about you and your petty squabbles.
This article comes down to the fact that there are people out there (and I’m not naming any names before you jump to conclusions) that are wilfully and purposefully putting these animals (and probably others) through hell in order to create a nice, public pleasing, exhibit. White tigers are not natural, although they have been born and survived (although arguably barely) in the wild. That is not to say we have the right to purposefully manipulate that fact for our own ends. Inbreeding is WRONG. It causes more problems within a species than is justifiable - just look at the human race. Incest is illegal in god knows how many countries- there is a reason for it. Royal lines have destroyed themselves because they did not vary their gene pool - we are doing the same to the tiger if we continue to allow inbreeding for the sake of colour. By allowing perfectly healthy, orange coloured tigers be ‘done away with’ because of the colour of their fur is just as bad as the centuries of racism we have let fester in our society.
Yes, white tigers are beautiful, don’t get me wrong, and if there was a safe way to breed them and let the world se their majesty, I would be all for it, not only to save white tigers, but the tiger species as well. Unfortunately, the white tiger does not “need to be helped”. Natural selection should be allowed to take its course, and if that means the recessive gene is ‘fixed’ or made less dangerous to a tigers health then good. But if not, then unfortunately there may not be a place for the white tiger in the HEALTHY future of the species.
As for Siegfried and Roy… Well I, not any one else who has posted it seems, has enough information to be able to make a fair and just assessment of their situation. I will admit that they do seem to look after their animals - if in an unorthodox way. However, how they breed and what their aims are for the breeding are unknown to us. Therefore, can we stop bashing or idealising them?
Finally, I think it is an unfortunate fact that, due to the continued hunt for the tiger that their best chance of survival is in the Zoo’s, conservations and private collections - at least for now. What needs to be done is not this pitiful argument, but actual EDUCATION. These organisations need to be made aware of the problems, difficulties and suffering of trying to manipulate breeding in such a way. Once we have educated as many as possible, perhaps then the scientists can come back and address the gene ‘problem’ and see if there is a way to manipulate it, with no detrimental effects.
Zann
I’ve loved Kenny since the first time i saw those big pushed in eyes. He is so cute and it is so cruel that anyone would say something rude about him. Willie’s story is so so sad too. Like how they wouldn’t take him because he has cross eyes and his fur is the wrong color. He is a beautiful tiger and so is Kenny.In my eyes they are the most beautiful tigers in the world, just because they injoy life even with their deformaties(that I don’t think they have it’s just that all others are have them and we can’t see that) and they are good animals. I mean if you went to any other place would the tiger in it go up to you and let you pet it, no it would not. That is why I’m doing my 5th grade Exit project on it.
From,
hayley scherette *crying*
Zann ,
You seem to have a grip on the picture. But I’m a bit confused. If you’ve read the number of posts/comments you said you did, I don’t see how you’d think that there’s that much of a (hopefully) benign mystery about S & R, and I quote: “As for Siegfried and Roy… Well I , not any one else who has posted it seems, has enough information to be able to make a fair and just assessment of their situation. I will admit that they do seem to look after their animals - if in an unorthodox way. However, how they breed and what their aims are for the breeding are unknown to us. Therefore, can we stop bashing or idealising them?”
For one, I thought the italicised was supposed to have a “not” in there. For another, I’m disturbed to think that you might just be defending them - which is so sad IF you’ve actually read all that you claim to have read.
hayley scherette ,
I believe you’re not getting the picture here. As I’ve said before, all this White Tiger Breeding fraud is the problem and it is NONE OF Kenny’s FAULT. Poor KENNY IS A VICTIM. Look at what Kenny has to live with, all his life. A mouth that can’t close because of his wayward teeth, which also causes him to be forever drooling, and a retarded brain that means he’s slower on the uptake than everyone else. If he had a choice, do you think Kenny would choose to be like this?
Kenny didn’t make himself into what he is now. It is people, HUMANS like you and me who did. IF what has happened to Kenny is natural, so be it. But the problem is, it is not. And it is happening because of people, HUMANS like you and me. And the sad fact is, after making tigers with problems like Kenny’s, the people who inbreed for white tigers won’t stop there and take responsibility .
Failed white tigers like Kenny are likely to be abandoned, sold as freakshow displays, to supply tiger meat parts to the Asian markets or otherwise exploited and abused, eg as canned hunting targets!
Not every failed white tiger is lucky to be saved like Kenny was.
hayley scherette , rather than cry and do a project on just how lovely Kenny is (which I’ve no doubt he is), why not do a project on what is captive white tiger breeding, and what happens to the other Kennys born because of “captive white tiger breeding” and teach your school mates how and what people, HUMANS like you and me, can do to stop it? That would be more help to Kenny and his fellow victims of “white tiger breeding”.
I just wanted to tell you that I support you in trying to bring to light the horrors of inbreeding of tigers to try to “produce” the white tiger. Since white tigers are do NOT naturally occur often, they are inbred in an attempt to “produce” the white tiger to fill the publics appetite for something “different” to look at. I have been to Turpentine Creek many times and have seen Kenny myself many times, along with all the OTHER neglected tigers and lions and other animals who are there. One breeder alone had 47 tigers removed from their facility. Turpentine Creek was able to take some of those unwanted animals in. Turpentine Creek gets calls all the time to take in unwanted BIG CATS. Until the US sets better laws regarding the sale and breeding of exotic animalls there will continue to be a problem with exotics. Turpentine Creek does NOT breed ANY of its animals, they let the animals live out thier lives as peacefully as possible and they recieve excellent care. Right now I have a picture of Numa-Kurlee a lion that lives at Turpentine Creek on my desk and pictures of other cats from there around my office on the walls. Numa-Kurlee was the only one of a litter of 3 cats to survive. There are many cats like him living there and each one has a story. I encourage anyone who thinks that in-breeding of exotics for human entertainment is somehow “saving the species” to look at Turpentine Creeks website and read each story about each animal living there and how they were treated and why they were brought into this world to begin with. White Tigers ARE the result of inbreeding today, there hasn’t been many “natural” births in the world of white tigers and since they are NOT a breed in and of themselves…. SAVING the white tiger makes no sense at all since the white tiger is NOT a breed but a mutation! (granted a pretty mutation, but a mutation non the less!)
Copied from wikipedia “Stage magicians Siegfried and Roy also own snow white tigers and were the first to attempt to breed selectively for stripelessness.”
Another site lists: Siegfried and Roy’s breeding program, now operating on three continents, has increased the number of white lions from a mere two to 23, and the number of white tigers from a handful to more than 200.
Now, however, they are billed as Royal White Tigers or Snow Tigers or other fanciful names. They have been transformed from essentially a freak of nature into an “endangered species.” There are no endangered white tigers in the natural world clinging to a precarious existence. There are plenty in captivity, along with a few white lions, who have always been no more than a novelty or publicity draw for their owners. The white tiger is a chance mutation in the wild and in the US it is a FORCED mutation.
Oh well running out of things to say, keep up the good work regarding the tragic story about the “white tiger” I wish all of you could actually go see Kenny and others at Turpentine Creek and see how many there are deformed “rejects” of the big cat trade. At least those cats that live there now, can live out the rest of their days in peace and actually put their feet on the grass and have the sun shine on them and have people who LOVE them care for them. Here is a link to read more about the sad story about exotics and those who love them and will care for them even though they have been abused, neglected and uncared for: http://www.turpentinecreek.org/NewSite/
Laura,
Thank you very much for:
- Weighing in with your real-life experiences of meeting with Kenny and his fellow rescue-cats at Turpentine Creek.
- Your precise understanding of the whole mess called the White Tiger Fraud, and for realising it goes beyond white tigers, that other big cats, both the specifically trait-bred ones, like white lions, to the usual ones
- Providing more info on the shameful business of captive big-cat breeding
I hope more people read your comments and really THINK, because as a real-life account, your words are far more impactful than mine could ever be. Thanks for taking the time to pen your thoughts here.
Thank you, Laura.
I, too love Kenny (and his sometimes forgotten yet still amazing brother Willie) and There are for too few places like Turpentine Creek and Big Cat Rescue out there.
I know it’s dismissive, but I don’t think it hypocritical to have a facility like that even if 20 years ago or whatever, the founders were pet owners. It just means that they wised up. Most religions thrive on converts. Most Christians I know love to hear of someone repenting their ways and being “saved”
It’s places like this that need our priase now. They’re the ones cleaning up other people’s messes. Nowhere, and I mean nowhere should any SSP animal be bred except in an SSP facility, where bloodlines can be monitored and genetics can be purified. That’s why it’s so frustraing the hear the suits telling the conservationalists to do certain things to raise money.
I’ve never met a Cat person who advocates freakshows like whites or stripelesses or hybrids like Serval/housecats or Ligers. Places that do this (zoos included) are only after the money aspect of it. But it’s not the “animal people” in these zoos, it’s the beauracrats. Money talks in this country, and the sooner people stop paying money to see these unnatural animals, the real conservation can begin.
hi okay so the 1 in 10,000 white tiger that is born. would that make it a bengal white tiger or a siberian white tiger. i think its a shame that people would breed these animals together. it would seem so much better if we could see the 1 in 10,000 then we could aww over that. white tigers used to be my favorite but now that i have learned about how they are bred and how much goes into it. i dispise the crossbred and inbred white tigers they have made. i only like the 1 in 10,000 they are special. i had to do bengal tigers for a enironmental science project and i feel ashamed for the boy in my class who picked white tiger because its not even a subspecies of tiger. so it cant be endangered. although i never thought it was. its not endangered because it doesnt excist. a white tiger is a mutation of a tiger. you cant cross breed something and make it a new spieces. that would be like sayin we are doing something godly. since when is anyone a god.
amanda, im not a tiger or gene expert but I assume that if a tiger were to be born naturally white and not as a result of inbred mating it could be, a pure white bengal tiger, a pure white siberian tiger or a hybrid white siberian/bengal tiger depending on the speicies of the mother and father.
For me it it is very disheartening to hear that all of the white tigers I have been fascinated by for all these years are not true white siberian or bengal tigers and equally dissapointing to hear the odds of there being a natural born white tiger considering that there are probably much less than 10,000 wild tigers alive today.
poor kenny and willie my heart is broken and will never be heald im so ashamed and embarresd
Stop the fighting … cant we all just hug it out!!!!!!!
i wanne adopt kenny!!!