From: BOB PITT < azooforu@...
Date: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:30 pm
Subject: Re: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] PETA release, circus elephants azooforu

I say screw it !! I'm going after Lisa Wathan
tomarrow. We'll see what she knows and from where she learned it... PETA is no biggy here, my lane is ½ mile back in the woods and the cats could always use some extra vitamin K in their diet.

--- Ray < rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com ... wrote:

None of these people had any real experience when they started. Tippi, Asvestas, Baskin, Quist, the AR people, etc.

It doesn't take any knowledge or talent to cage up an animal and throw food
at it and never do anything else with it. Or to issue press releases and say
how cruel captivity is.

What's galling is seeing them treated like the ultimate fount of knowledge
and hearing them damn every other person who has these animals, some of whom
know a hundred times more.

Their fallback position is always that the rest are sinners and immoral and
shouldn't be exploiting and having these animals anyway.

But nobody in the old media examines _their_ credentials. They take their
claims as truth and other AR people vouch for them.

But anyone who opposes them has to prove who they are, get belittled, brushed off, etc.

Aren't double standards great?

Ray

From: < tigers9@...
To: <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] PETA release,
circus elephants

Well, when u think aboit it what EXPERT credentials do peopel like Baskin
or Quist have, Quist wnats to enlarge her place and get tigers, but what
does she REALLY know abouthandlign tigers? Just because she has one old
tiger, played with few cubs and witnessed few tiger transports???
These peopel look down onus but we pet owners or trainers withhands one
with big cats have more experience then peope like Quist.
Z

From: "Ray" < rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com ...
Date: 2006/02/19 Sun PM 09:09:42 PST
To: <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] PETA release,
circus elephants

I seem to recall looking into her last year and only finding her being an
expert desk jockey. No actual animal experience and no credentials. Maybe
well-read, maybe not. Just a long history with every AR group. They seem
to share her or something.

Like some celebrities who are famous for being famous (Paris Hilton) these
experts are "experts" because they say they are and others say they are.

Ray

From: "chimps" < chimps@...
Date: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] FL: Carole's take on Saturday luvgr8apes

Too funny, Linda! <big grin ;)

I was set up by several of the protesters.. One a blonde which I will not mention her name faked herself off to me as Carole Baskins asking me what I had in my car and did I have a monkey in there.. I caught myself and just uttered a couple of profane words and walked away.. lol.... Then of course Vernon just had to try to make me use the more gutter lingo which I happen to know quite well on occasion by telling me that we had a little problem, my monkey which was in his wifes care had opened the cage and was up in a tree.

From: Linda Hunnicutt
To: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] FL: Carole's take on Saturday

I was there and only saw about 3 cars go into the Cat Rescue. I did see the
fake Bill Clinton emerge and he did look like the real thing, only thing was
missing was his girlfriends dress did not have the stains on it.....! And he
was not smoking a cigar. Now as far as us doing her a favor? Don' t think so.
Even one of the candidates for office read our literature and grabbed a sign
with us. Yep that is true. have photos to prove it. I have never seen such a
populated area to have a Big Cat rescue located in. It amazed me to think of
her telling legislators how dangerous a cat in the back yard is and how it could
hurt the public yet she is right there in the middle of restaurants and malls
and she has had an escape.. And she had no news coverage either.. Except for the
TampaTribune was called about the fire truck and Ambulance that drove in there
with lights flashing and sirens going? Never did find out about that either?&nb
from harrassing her took the flyers and eased up on us after getting a glance at
that information.

All in all it was a good demonstration other than the fact my temper was
already known and I was set up by several of the protesters.. One a blonde which
I will not mention her name faked herself off to me as Carole Baskins asking me
what I had in my car and did I have a monkey in there.. I caught myself and just
uttered a couple of profane words and walked away.. lol.... Then of course
Vernon just had to try to make me use the more gutter lingo which I happen to
know quite well on occasion by telling me that we had a little problem, my
monkey which was in his wifes care had opened the cage and was up in a tree. Of
course that didn't phase me a bit.. Yeah right. Well they got me pretty good and
learned a few new words I suspect..lol.

It was a fabulous occasion as far as I was concerned, I got to put faces
with names and learned there are a lot of very dedicated people working to
prevent our losing our animals and made me even more determined to do the most
that is possible with what we have to work with. There will be a next time
with more time to prepare and we will expose her to the people who seem to be
blind to her shortcommings.

Keep tuned in folks it ain't over till the fat lady sings and I haven't even
taken the first voice lesson yet....Linda

From: Tim Stoffel < tim@...
Date: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:07 am
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: Carole Baskin/Lewis ?from year 2000 timbalionguy

On Sat, 2006-02-18 at 18:27 -0500, Ray wrote:

The game is played this way: demonize your opponents to keep people from supporting them. Teach them that they are nuts, sickos, etc. That keeps people from coming together to fight you.

It's worked for thousands of years.

And this is about the only sure-fire thing that will work against AR.

For the lions,
Tim Stoffel

From: Tim Stoffel < tim@...
Date: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:57 am
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carole- BCR comments back at us in Business week timbalionguy

On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 23:56 -0500, SOUTHZOO@... wrote:
_http://app.businessweek.com/UserComments/get_revi ews?productId=3163_
(http://app.businessweek.com/UserComments/get_revi ews?productId=3163)

Nickname: Carole Baskin CEO Big Cat Rescue
Review: While those who own exotic animals often claim to love them as they would their own children, I don't think they would agree that children should be bred for the amusement of others, kept in cages and then auctioned off to the highest bidder or abandoned when the family's situation changes.

I wonder if Carole loves any of her animals? If someone walked in there and killed half of her cats, I bet her response wouldn't be 'good riddance'!

What these people love is the attention that their pets solicit for them. The question is not: Can some people provide a proper home? but is: Should countless animals have to suffer so that the very few can have them as pets?

She's probably one of those that believe that 90 percent of exotic animals die in the first two years.

For the lions,
Tim Stoffel

From: Tim Stoffel < tim@...
Date: Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:38 am
Subject: RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] CWPA Deadline is March 2 timbalionguy

HOW DO WE GET THIS CAT-MURDERER TO SHUT UP? She sounds just like someone else we know.

BTW, how did the protest go outside her place a couple days back?

For the lions (who I hope aren't found in her place),
Tim Stoffel

From: "Z" < tigers9@...
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:39 pm
Subject: RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] CWPA Deadline is March 2 zbrubruff

Carol Baskin is urging people to remove USDA exemptions.
Z
http://capwiz.com/bigcatrescue/issues/alert/?alert id=8445421
<http://capwiz.com/bigcatrescue/issues/alert/?a lertid=8445421&type=ML
&type=ML

Stop Interstate Sale of Big Cats as Pets
After his pet tiger escaped and was shot Tarzan was able to get a 40.00 USDA
permit to buy more baby tigers. Please help us stop this sort of insanity.

In 2003 a law was passed that made it illegal to sell big cats across state
lines as pets but the law lacked the technical teeth to be enforced. The
Senate unanimously passed S.1415 to correct that flaw last year but the
House hasn't adopted the language yet and time is running out. Despite the
House not doing their part to end this dangerous activity, the US Fish and
Wildlife Service has proposed rules that would help end the trade in big
cats, and they are considering input until March 2, 2006. Their proposal has
some flaws that you can help us fix. One flaw is that anyone with a 40.00
permit from USDA is exempt. Please Take Action by and let your government
know this is important to you.
To read the entire proposed Rule go here:
http://www.bigcatrescue.org/laws/2006FederalRegist er.htm but be sure to
come back here to help us with your brief letter.
http://capwiz.com/bigcatrescue/issues/alert/?alert id=8445421
<http://capwiz.com/bigcatrescue/issues/alert/?a lertid=8445421&type=ML
&type=ML

From: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:46 AM
To: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] CWPA Deadline is March 2

From Captain West:

All,

I have attached a Federal Register notice regarding the federal Captive Wildlife Safety Act and the US Fish and Wildlife Service's interpretation of its content. We will not meet as a group before the closing date for comments which is on March 2nd, 2006 so please accept this as an FYI and comment personally to the USFWS if you desire.

See you at the next meeting.

John
Captain John D. West
Division of Law Enforcement
Investigations Section
"Patrol, Protect, Preserve"
(850) 488-6253
E-mail: John.West@...
Website: www.MyFWC.Com

From: "Ray" < rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com ...
Date: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carol Baskin runeraion

Y'know, I was so busy yesterday I forgot about the protest.

There isn't a word about it in the media.

From: "Heather M" < grizzly_bear_mom@...
To: <phoenix_exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:55 AM
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carol Baskin

What ever happened at the protest yesterday? Also, I toured her facility
a few weeks ago what a wreck, I cant believe the State of Florida and the
USDA allows her caging.
Hog rings!! I wouldn't house large hook bills in caging secured with hog
rings. There is no way these cages meet the structural sound criteria of
the state of Florida. .
Who is she to criticize anyone? Heather

From: "Ray" < rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com ...
Date: Thu Feb 9, 2006 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: Fw: [Phoenix_Exotics] I need something cleared up Regarding our posts runeraion

But the state could pass some laws covering sales to the public so this
bears watching.

And fighting.

Unconstitutional laws get passed all the time. They get enforced until
someone stands up and makes an example of themselves in court.

Never say never.

Ray

From: < Bigcats10@aol.com
To: <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Phoenix_Exotics] I need something cleared up Regarding our
posts

In a message dated 2/9/2006 2:52:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ARIGERMAN@... writes:

as for possible new law, i have already lobbied the group that counts FWC
uit does not wanr it and it will work through legislative people

Exactly, and FWC has full authority to regulate exotic wildlife.

The proposed action is listed on Ms. Baskin's website which was initiated
by her.
_http://www.bigcatrescue.org/blog.htm_
(http://www.bigcatrescue.org/blog.htm)

From: "Bob Nevin" < bob@...
Date: Thu Feb 9, 2006 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Florida iluvclydesda...

What's the deal with these people?!

We had a 10' boa constrictor or python for a 6th grade classroom pet in
Elementary school and no one blinked an eye. Now if your neighbor has one
people freak!! More small pets get squashed by cars than get swallowed by a
pet snake. Give me a break. Oh now I see they want to lump in other exotics
in as well.

This society has gotten so into safety and sterilization, its driving me
nuts! Here is the latest safety craze at my supermarket, seat belts for the
shopping carts - required!!! ugh

One thing I need to stress regarding this bill is the breeding situation.
Banning breeding will highly limit the amount of genetic diversity in an
animal population. Though controls can be made so that the animal breed
doesn't overpopulate, banning breeding outright will not fix the problem.
Banning the sale of such animals will also not solve the problem and
actually make it more difficult to for state animal control officers to
enforce. All this would just go underground and there will be a huge lack of
control on the breeding because it will go undocumented just as there is in
drug trafficking.

I know I'm preaching to the choir but want to give my thanks to lndmonk for
bringing this to our attention.

I will send my 2 cents to the Governor and state congress people ASAP even
though I'm not from Florida.

-Bob
(Its my God Given right to responsibly own a lion and support those who do.)